Leeza Browne (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Everything Early Childhood podcast, designed for approved providers, nominated supervisors and other child care leaders, this fun, lighthearted, and very serious podcast features weekly episodes on strategy advice and conversations with fascinating and inspiring people from across our sector. Join the journey and have access to the tools and inspiration you need to create high performing childcare businesses. Let's get.
Leeza Browne (00:00:30) - Started!
Leeza Browne (00:00:35) - Hello friends, and welcome to another episode of Everything Early Childhood. I'm your host, Lisa Brown, and today we have a special guest who's dedicated their career to nurturing the youngest minds, shaping the future generations. So we're delving into the world of early childhood education today, as we do every week, and a room where every day is an adventure with curiosity, growth, and boundless imagination. Our guest today is a seasoned early childhood professional with a wealth of experience, coming to us all the way from Canada with insights into the magical realm of a child's first years. So we look forward to delving into play based learning, navigating the challenges and that they've seen throughout their career and the driving force creating a positive impact on young lives.
Leeza Browne (00:01:23) - So now, without further ado, let's welcome Donna Ski, an advocate for early childhood development, to the Everything Early Childhood podcast. So welcome, Donna.
Donna Skea (00:01:33) - Oh, Leeza, thank you so much. What a wonderful intro. I really appreciate that. And and I'm super excited to be here. I've been listening to your podcasts and they've inspired me to reach out and say, hey, want to be part of this? Because this has been wonderful. You're really an inspiration. So thank you for doing what you're doing as well.
Leeza Browne (00:01:54) - Oh, I appreciate you so much getting in touch. I was like, yes, let's do this.
Donna Skea (00:02:00) - It's you know, it's it's interesting because within the context of, you know, different worlds, but we're very much early childhood. We all have the same kind of issues, dilemmas, problems, you know, joys, all of those things. We're all very similar. It doesn't matter where we are in the planet. But I really feel like the community of early childhood is really small, and we all have our, you know, our joys and our ups and our downs and all of the love that we have for the children and and the purpose that we all, all share.
Donna Skea (00:02:38) - So I think it's really amazing to be able to do it like this.
Leeza Browne (00:02:41) - Yeah. Oh, and thank goodness for technology and our ability to be able to connect. Amazing. And it's interesting that you said that because obviously having the opportunity to travel around the world, which you have as well, to see early childhood spaces and be part of that, it is so interesting that there are similarities with the challenges that we're facing.
Donna Skea (00:03:02) - Absolutely. I've been to several different, different countries. I've been to China. I was in Scotland this summer and met up with a bunch of colleagues who were at the uni in Inverness and had conversations with them. I've I've worked with daycares even in Australia, and it's amazing the problems are the same and the joys are the same, and the we're all trying to navigate think what we would call the new normal post-Covid, the changing sort of dynamics that is daycare and childcare, trying to to, you know, help support our educators, help support the children and their families. All of those things are all the same.
Donna Skea (00:03:53) - And so we're all in it kind of into in it together, you know, we're all in it together and, and to support each other and to be part of that, that wonderful universe we call early childhood.
Leeza Browne (00:04:05) - Yeah, I love that. And I love that you've put preface on those joys, because there are also so many of those beautiful moments. And we've been talking a lot about. It's been coming up in a lot of conversations about glimmers and finding those moments of joy. So before we get into anything like, I want to know, what is one story from your career that you look back on? And because I call it like our best day ever, right. And so what is one of these moments where you look back and you're like, this was our best day or best moment ever?
Donna Skea (00:04:35) - Oh, my favorite story I love to tell is about a little boy named Simon. And one day Simon, who never comes to the art table, came to the art table and started making paper airplanes.
Donna Skea (00:04:53) - You know, like just with the, you know, folding it up and being able to to make those paper airplanes now, you know, have a lot of skills as an early childhood educator, but that's not one of them. Okay. Yeah. And suck at me making paper airplanes, especially ones that they want to make fly. Well, this little boy was such a genius at making these paper airplanes. And of course, you know what happens when one child does it. They come running over to me and they say, oh, Donna, Donna, Donna, please make me a paper airplane. And would I just put my hands up? I said, I'm sorry. I don't know how to do that. You're going to have to go, um, talk to to Simon. And so Simon comes back over with all of this little children following him behind to teach how to do the the paper airplanes. Now, for three days straight, we had paper airplanes being thrown all over my classroom.
Donna Skea (00:05:59) - I just sat there in my joy, watching a little boy come completely out of his shell because it was quite quiet before, um, come out of his shell, demonstrate leadership skills, being able to teach and to facilitate and to scaffold other children into doing this. Um, children who would never come to the art table. We're now drawing on their paper airplanes, making it a big deal, super excited to come into the classroom because they were going to do paper airplanes again. And it just went on and on for three full days. And then, you know, as children do, they kind of get bored of it and that they move forward. But I just sat there watching. Children support each other. Engage with each other. And all I had to do was provide materials. That's it. I had no guidance strategies. I didn't have to do anything. I just showed up for the day. And it just, you know, it was just one of those days where there was just pure joy in the classroom and everybody was happy.
Donna Skea (00:07:11) - I let things sort of evolve in the way that the naturally. And there was no there was no issues. And I saw this little boy go from somebody who was kind of, you know, in the pack to now becoming a leader. And now children wanted to hang out with him. Children wanted to be friends with him. Children want to play, wanted to play what he wanted to play with. So I saw a child's growth in terms of their, you know, emotional development, their social skills, as well as building on their self-worth and self-esteem. So for me, that is my okay. I can retire now.
Leeza Browne (00:07:53) - That was your moment in those three days.
Donna Skea (00:07:56) - Was a day.
Leeza Browne (00:07:57) - And, you.
Donna Skea (00:07:57) - Know, and I think one of the things the message when I tell that story is that I believe that by letting, allowing myself to hand over the control, so to speak, of the of the classroom, to the children and giving them that opportunity to learn from each other. Um, I created a community that day.
Leeza Browne (00:08:24) - Yeah, you did, you did. And that's what I was going to delve into, actually, I was going to say, like a lot of educators coming in, particularly when they're at their start of their career and they think, well, what is my job? Because in that stood out for me. It's like you took a step back. You allowed the children to be in that power to make those decisions around their learning. And for him to take a leadership role, our little Simon. So how did you or what do you believe is the role of an educator, and how do we get more educators on board with feeling and thinking that they don't have to be doing everything for children, because children don't need us as much as we think they do.
Donna Skea (00:09:07) - Oh yes. It was very interesting. And in that particular year I learned a lot about being an early childhood educator. I learned I learned just how capable children were. Um, you know, at the beginning of this of the year, we started with conflict resolution.
Donna Skea (00:09:25) - And I remember one particular time there was a child that, uh, you know, there was a conflict at the sand table. And I was heading over there, and I heard them using the strategies. And I slowly back to.
Speaker 4 (00:09:40) - The.
Donna Skea (00:09:40) - Situation because they didn't need me. And I think one of the things that we know. So for the last 20 years, I have been a professor at a college teaching early childhood. So I'm teaching the next generation of students going into the field to become educators. And we know from the research that, you know, that first year or two, it's really about survival. They're just trying to get through the day. So I, I feel one of the things that we have to work with, with educators is building on their confidence and understanding. What they really need is to believe in themselves that they have the strategies and that they have the skills and they know what they're doing. But and and it's funny, because I was listening to one of your podcasts and you were talking a lot about being intentional.
Donna Skea (00:10:33) - And I feel like the first couple of years, they don't have that intentionality yet. They're very reactionary. So think so. They feel like if they don't, um. If they don't control everything, they're going to lose control, which you know. You know that that kind of understand that. But at the same time, they need to have sort of a Simon experience to sort of see, you know what? It doesn't all go crazy and turn into chaos if you hand it over to the children. And one of the things that I tell my students, I tell the educators in the classroom that I work with and, and I, I try to get them to understand that the classroom is not actually for them, it's for the children, and that within the context, you're there and you're facilitating and you're scaffolding and you're doing all the things that you're supposed to be doing, cutting up the apples and making sure they're safe and all of the stuff that that we do. But creating an environment where the children feel safe, where they feel confident that they're capable and that they're able to do these things and make choices in a classroom that they feel is theirs.
Leeza Browne (00:11:53) - And it should we should walk into those spaces and it should represent the people that are in the space. But I also think to to add on what you're saying, I think that it shouldn't just represent the children, it should represent the adults in the space as well, because it's also their space. So also, you know, and I don't mean for it to be completely teacher driven. What I mean is, you know, if they're from a different culture or a different background, you know, to bring in their interests and their culture and bring in those things that make them who they are as well.
Donna Skea (00:12:25) - Absolutely, absolutely agree with that as well. I think that, but I think it's sometimes we need to kind of like. I find that teachers are a little shocked when I tell them that the classroom is for the for the children, right? Because they think they. Especially when you're working because I've worked with, you know, pre-K and kinder classes. So they go in with the mindset that they're teachers and they have to set up their classroom accordingly.
Donna Skea (00:12:53) - Right. So they have a different kind of mindset about that. And then but you're right. And I, I think that one of the things that I've been teaching and giving workshops is building community, and that every child within the context of that community and the educators as well, should feel like they're represented. There should be baby dolls, there should be storybooks, there should be pictures. There should be everybody's different types of family. Everybody's different types of, you know, you know, skin tone. There's wonderful books. There's a lot of materials out there now. Um, and one of the things I always remember, I had a student in at the college level who said that they'd never got their family portrait correct because there was never the right crayons for what their family looked like. Yeah. And now, luckily, Crayola has come up with colors of the world. And so I was thinking of her. I bought a whole bunch of crayons and I may I went I went into the classroom and I said, would you like to do your family portrait now? Because now she had the colors of her family in this crayon box, and she was able to draw at like 19 years old.
Donna Skea (00:14:11) - She was finally able to draw a picture of her family because, you know, her her mother was white and her dad was from Jamaica and her little sister was a stepsister. Like there was all so there was a multi faceted family, and then she could finally draw that family and said, now you can go home and put it on the fridge.
Speaker 4 (00:14:34) - And she says, yeah, what a beautiful moment.
Donna Skea (00:14:37) - She, she was so happy and I was so inspired by her. So now every time I try to bring in those, those crayons so that, that, you know, it, it seems like such a small gesture. But really it's, it's so big for a lot of children to be able to, to color a picture with the skin tone that they have.
Leeza Browne (00:14:58) - Yeah. To look in the mirror and see themselves represented on the page. And I love how the world is catching up. I love how the.
Speaker 4 (00:15:05) - World is catching.
Leeza Browne (00:15:06) - Up. Yes. Finally, I remember, you know, many, many years ago, getting all of the shades and colors out and trying to mix them together to try to come up with the right shade.
Leeza Browne (00:15:14) - It was so it was so challenging. But we did it. But yeah, that is such a beautiful moment. And it's those moments of joy and impact that those children, even at 19 years old, they're going to carry with them for the rest of their life.
Donna Skea (00:15:29) - Yeah. And she was dead serious. So she's like, yes, I'm, I'm taking this and putting this on my fridge like, this is I finally have a family portrait that looks like my family.
Speaker 4 (00:15:38) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:15:39) - So why are like, in your opinion, why do you think the early years are so important?
Donna Skea (00:15:46) - Well, I feel, you know, as a professor and somebody that does a lot with the with the research and stuff, I know what the research says. 0 to 5 is so crucial in terms of building that effective relationship. I have kind of done recently, going down the rabbit hole of the types of different types of attachment theories and different types of attachments. This is something I've been really kind of concerned about post-Covid post-pandemic, about how children have connected, because we know when we go back through the research and we know, particularly when we're thinking about Erick Erickson, social emotional theories, right, that trust versus mistrust and that ability to build that, like how crucial that first caregiver's attachment is to the child and how the child sees the the world for the rest of their lives, possibly, if that connection is good or not good.
Donna Skea (00:16:51) - And it can also come from an early childhood educator, especially if you are in the infant room, and how that connection can really, really make, make, make a difference in a child's life and make them feel safe. I feel that we really give children a great opportunity when we have really skilled early childhood educators, trained educators in the field who know, who love, who are passionate about what it is that they're doing that children just don't know. I don't even know the word maybe blossom, grow, expand, you know, love seeing little children and you can see the little wheels turning in their head. Let them try, let them do it. And that really does set the tone for what happens later on in life. And I'm a big advocate for and understand. I did my master's thesis on children transitioning into school and what it is that they really needed from, from, from preschool or daycares into, into elementary schools. And it wasn't the ABCs or the one two threes or any of the academics my research came up with.
Donna Skea (00:18:10) - It's all about having appropriate social skills and emotional regulation. And within the context of of that understanding that that's really where our focus needs to be, which then encompasses everything else, right? Language, gross motor, fine motor, all of the all of the developmental domains, particularly cognitive too. Right. We've got problem solving, turn taking, sharing all of those skills that children really need to become, you know, what's the end goal? What's the end result. We want them to be positive citizens of the world.
Speaker 4 (00:18:48) - Yeah. And that's that's the end. That's the end goal. It's so true.
Leeza Browne (00:18:52) - And we all.
Speaker 4 (00:18:53) - Yeah, we often we can start right at the beginning. Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:18:56) - And we often have to reframe that for families as well with the expectations of their children that rather than saying, you know, what do you want for your child right now? Because often families and educators can think of it from the perspective of like going to school and being successful and academic. But if you get them to think about the long term future like you're saying and phrase it in a question of being like, well, what do you actually want for your child as a human being?
Speaker 4 (00:19:22) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:19:22) - Then the answer will be completely different and they'll start to see that will actually. And then going back on that research that you're talking about where you said about the connection and safety, without that, there isn't going to be any academic learning.
Donna Skea (00:19:37) - If children do not feel safe in their environment and do not make a positive connection with their educator or their caregiver, there's no learning.
Leeza Browne (00:19:48) - There's no learning.
Donna Skea (00:19:49) - There's no learning. It's just it just doesn't happen. So. So safety is first. And it's not just physical safety. I talk a lot with my students about building the effective relationships with the child. And the psychological safety is is paramount to to getting a child to grow and to thrive. If they don't feel connected to the educator and don't feel safe in their environment, they're not going to grow. They're just not. It's just it's we know that. We know that from the research.
Leeza Browne (00:20:21) - And so what are some practical strategies or tips that you can you provide to be able to build that psychological safety and those connections?
Donna Skea (00:20:30) - Well, I think the first thing that I always like to talk about is in terms of classroom environment, does the child feel like they have a space or a place in that in that classroom? Is there a, you know, a cubby space? Is there? Can they bring in their doodoo or their pacifier or their whatever, you know, can they can they do all of that? That's one.
Donna Skea (00:20:54) - Are they being greeted at the door? Hi, Lisa. I'm so happy you're here. Welcome back. You were missing a day I missed you. Come on in. I can't wait to talk to you. Yeah, right. Having children think that they're excited. Oh, you guys were talking about dinosaurs yesterday. I'm going to go get some dinosaurs, and I'm going to put it on the table. Or put them in the sand table for you guys to play with, because you're really excited about that, thinking about ways that we can connect with them. And I did a workshop just recently, and I think it was pretty funny. I jokingly said to the educators, and I'm sure a lot of of educators out there will relate, said, when did we become waitresses? You know, you get an apple.
Speaker 4 (00:21:42) - And you get an apple and.
Donna Skea (00:21:43) - You're.
Speaker 4 (00:21:44) - Right.
Donna Skea (00:21:45) - And and said, when did we stop sitting down with the children at lunch time and just kind of having that family meal and just kind of engaging in conversation and just going a little bit that back and forth and, and just just just being there and, you know, sitting down with the children and playing with that, talking with them, having them sit in your lap, read a story, engage.
Donna Skea (00:22:11) - There's your whole job as an early childhood educator is to be with the children, right? Right. And so all the other stuff, yes, I know that you you're going to get a lot of mail. Well, you know, my admin says that, you know, but and understand that.
Speaker 4 (00:22:30) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:22:32) - And nafis and like, you know, Haiti models and all of these other things we have to.
Speaker 4 (00:22:36) - Do to do this and yes, and like we can clean and.
Donna Skea (00:22:39) - I'm all by myself and but we can.
Leeza Browne (00:22:41) - Get so caught up in those moments. Yeah. So we've got to come back to why we're doing it and.
Speaker 4 (00:22:46) - Where we there challenge.
Donna Skea (00:22:48) - Exactly. And I challenge everybody to at least spend 20 to 30 minutes sitting down on the carpet with your children, whether it's first thing in the morning, whether it's in the in the afternoon after snack. What? And just play with the children. And each child will get to know you, and each child will get to know. You'll get to know each child.
Donna Skea (00:23:14) - You'll be able to engage. You'll have silly moments, I think making a child laugh and the child making you laugh is a wonderful way of building a bond. You know, just just a little bit of like, you know, silliness or whatever. Like, yeah, there's still children and they're still allowed to have a childhood. And it's not all about the growing and the learning and the this and that. Sometimes it's also okay to be a little silly and have a little bit of fun and a little bit of engagement. I used to have little dance parties in my classroom on the days where the weather was not necessarily, you know, we're in Canada, we can go down as cold as like -40.
Speaker 4 (00:23:55) - So. Oh yes, let's talk about that. Yes.
Donna Skea (00:24:00) - So we're not always capable of going outside because the weather is too cold, or we're in the middle of a snowstorm or something like that. And so we've got to find ways to help children burn off some of the wiggles that they get and and to find ways for them to move their body, and turning on music and having a dance party, particularly on a Friday, is usually a fun way to help children move their body and to get excited about, you know, oh, it's Friday, let's do the Friday dance and let's get, you know, and so, you know, these kinds of things, I think we they're all of these little things may seem small and insignificant to an adult, but to a child, it really does mean a lot to them that, you know, you call them by their name, you make sure and you pronounce it properly and you know, and the child feels excited about it.
Donna Skea (00:24:55) - Here in Canada, we are a plethora of multitude of cultures and languages and all kinds of stuff like that. So we strongly encourage our educators to learn at least a few words. Of of several languages so that they can make those connections with with the. With the child, particularly the younger ones, you know, even if it's as simple as you know. You know, like something like, do you have to go to the washroom or, you know, are you. Are you hungry or do you want more? Like, we, we.
Speaker 4 (00:25:29) - Teach.
Donna Skea (00:25:30) - Sign language or something like that so that the child can feel comfortable in that classroom again, going back to the whole idea of safe.
Leeza Browne (00:25:40) - Yeah. And that psychological safety. And I love that oh, so many like different ways that I want to go with this. I'm so excited. I'm like, oh, do we talk about like, because I loved what you said about obviously the play based learning. And I want to go down that route because I don't know if people really understand the difference between play and play based learning, but I'm also interested.
Leeza Browne (00:26:03) - We'll talk about that. And I'm also interested about the weather and how you incorporate, because obviously we're so blessed over here in Australia that our weather is pretty standard all year round, is not a lot of degree. Perhaps it's too hot some days that we might stay inside, but we're very blessed. But yeah, so play like what is play based learning and some effective strategies around play based learning and how to how educators can frame it.
Donna Skea (00:26:29) - Well, think in terms of play based learning. And the way that I sort of go about it is. I really feel that again, going back on the idea of being an intentional educator, really getting to know the children well enough to find out what their interests are, what are they excited about, what do they want to do, and how do we support that in our physical environment? I'm I'm not so keen. Guess is a good word on on too many teacher based activities. I really like the idea of prompted experiences, you know, putting materials up out on the tabletop, changing the materials around a lot so that children are constantly exploring.
Donna Skea (00:27:20) - So when you are in that, that that the materials are new, this is the where the educator needs to come in and use language to support that. Ask open ended questions. Being able to paraphrase, if a child says, you know, Apple, oh, that's yeah, that's a red apple. Do you eat red apples at home? And being able to sort of bring that language in, but sit there and support the play as an educator going into that and that I feel a lot of the times is where you see the learning in the play by by just supporting it in what they're doing, you know, speaking to it, engaging in it. I always think it's really important as an educator to help support the social building, the social skills, you know, the turn taking, you know, modeling a lot of that stuff. You know, I've been in this field for 30 years. I cannot tell you, Lisa, how many cups of fake tea I've had in my lifetime.
Speaker 4 (00:28:24) - Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:28:25) - Yeah. Right.
Donna Skea (00:28:27) - Um, and just kind of support that that kind of play, bringing in different materials. I really feel like educators need to be on the ball when it comes to, um, changing their classroom over more often than not. Sometimes I go into centers where my first question is, um, when was the last time you changed your toys? They're like, oh, we have so many challenging behaviors. When was the last time you changed your toys? And they're like, oh, well. So we put them in in September and that was it. I'm like, well, they're bored and now they're ready for more constantly challenging, helping to scaffold with new materials, bringing in, you know, fun things. I am a huge advocate for an empty box.
Speaker 4 (00:29:18) - I love.
Donna Skea (00:29:19) - Empty boxes. Bring in empty boxes. Yeah. And and watch what happens. Like they turn into so many different things allowing children that opportunity. And the other thing I would say in terms of play based learning is give them time to play.
Donna Skea (00:29:37) - Yeah, we are so quick. Oh, ten minutes, 15 minutes or we use play as a transition, which we never should do, you know, find other things, you know, put puzzles on the table, books, whatever you need to do but play is play and give them the time. 30, 40 minutes of just playing. Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:30:00) - Well we say long uninterrupted times. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:30:03) - Yes.
Donna Skea (00:30:04) - Absolutely. Absolutely. So we're we're kind of working on that here. Um, a lot of our educators have started. Well, not started, but you know, there are a few educators that do use play as sort of a transition. They don't really or ten minutes, 15 minutes and children don't actually get time to get into the play. I jokingly say, if you ever listen to a dramatic play, you know, group going on, it takes 15 minutes for them to come up with their storyline before they've even started.
Speaker 4 (00:30:39) - To storyline roles. Yeah yeah yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Donna Skea (00:30:43) - Who's gonna what material all.
Speaker 4 (00:30:44) - Of that kind of want to be the mom, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Donna Skea (00:30:48) - But all of that is learning through play and negotiation.
Speaker 4 (00:30:53) - They have to.
Leeza Browne (00:30:53) - Learn in resolution.
Speaker 4 (00:30:54) - Negotiation, conflict resolution, language.
Donna Skea (00:30:58) - And the only way that children are really going to learn all of those skills is to be able to interact with their peers, to be able to do all of that stuff. And how do even during those play scenarios, how do we learn to pivot, how do we learn to change things.
Leeza Browne (00:31:14) - And respond as well? And that impromptu and it builds so many different facets of their learning and their growth. And something that you said before, which I want to highlight around that. You told the child, so you picked up around that psychological safety, but also play based where you communicated with that child. Hey, I noticed yesterday you're playing with the dinosaurs too. So today we're going to put. Should we put them back out. So I think that often we'll just set something up in the space, but we won't have that conversation or discussion and involve the children in that decision making process.
Donna Skea (00:31:49) - Yes. I think it's really important that we talk to the children about everything. I jokingly say, if you're not tired of talking by the end of the week, you didn't talk enough.
Speaker 4 (00:31:58) - Yeah, yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:31:58) - And lost that voice. I remember some weeks it was so funny. I used to get home and my husband was like, blah blah blah blah, blah blah, and he expected me to communicate back and I was like, no, no, no, no, I just need some silence. I just need silence. Just a little.
Speaker 4 (00:32:12) - Bit. Just a little. Yeah.
Donna Skea (00:32:15) - Friday night was always the night where you're like, no, I don't want to talk to anybody. You want to go now? No.
Speaker 4 (00:32:21) - He was like, you're being so short.
Leeza Browne (00:32:22) - I'm like, fine talk all you want, but I just need. I just need a bit of silence. It's so true. Yeah, yeah, love, that's so true.
Donna Skea (00:32:29) - And think, think. That's where we get the idea of the community classroom, right? Because here I am.
Donna Skea (00:32:36) - Oh, I saw that you were playing with the dinosaurs. How? Well, we put them in the sand table or. Or where would you like to play with them. Ask them those questions. Depending on the age group that you have mean you could have a group of four and five year old who could run the classroom, and you just could sit there and sip a cup of tea, you know, like they've got the whole thing under control, especially if you have managed it in a particular way that the children seem, you know, very confident and very confident in their ability to to choose and to navigate through their day.
Leeza Browne (00:33:10) - Yeah. And it reminds me, I mean, I'm a big advocate for drawing different parts and almost like, you know, peeling back all the theorists and perspectives. And it reminds me of a part that I take from, like Maria montessori around that we shouldn't do for children anything they can do for themselves that we're taking that learning away. You're stealing that moment from them every time you go, and we care.
Leeza Browne (00:33:32) - We're such caring people and wearing the caring space. And we have that innate need to to do certain things, but we have to check in and hold ourselves back because we definitely don't want to steal that moment or send a different message to the child.
Donna Skea (00:33:48) - Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. And and I think that again, I think that comes with with confidence as an educator, I think that comes with intentionality. I think that comes with, you know, a couple of years in the, in the field so that you feel like, okay, this is not going to all, you know, fall apart if I if I give them a little bit of control, which I think is what a lot of new educators feel, that they're going to lose control of the classroom. But I feel that that allowing them to have that opportunity, give them that responsibility and think a part of it, too, is, is is.
Speaker 4 (00:34:28) - Believing that children.
Donna Skea (00:34:29) - Can.
Speaker 4 (00:34:31) - Yeah, like they.
Donna Skea (00:34:32) - Can do it. We know that they can do it.
Donna Skea (00:34:34) - I believe that children are so very capable. We just need to. Like you said, back up a little bit and allow them that opportunity to do it. Maria montessori was just like, she's my she's my idol right there. Like she just totally gets it. And and yeah, she was a way ahead of her time, let me tell you.
Leeza Browne (00:34:58) - Sorry much. And I think it reminds me in our new framework, we've got this new keyword which is high expectations. So having high expectations of children and having that belief that they can reach it, they can get there. I believe in you. And even as team members, like sometimes they just need your belief in them to be able to achieve something. But same with the children. We just need to believe in them. Yes. And that's where it starts.
Donna Skea (00:35:27) - They're so very capable and so wonderful when. And one of the things that I think, again, going back to the idea of joy, I remember so many moments in my career where when a child gets it and has done it for themselves, that look on their face of pure joy and like, look what I did.
Donna Skea (00:35:52) - And you're like, aren't you? That's so amazing. And they're like.
Speaker 4 (00:35:55) - Yeah, did it in that proud. Yeah. Pride.
Donna Skea (00:35:58) - And then to go off and I always try to do this like to when I was an educator, I would always make sure that I would talk to the parent in front of the child and say, let me tell you what your child did today. I'm telling you, you're going to be so happy. You know, because parents always of thinking that something terrible is going to, you know, like the news is going to be so bad and like, oh, I can't tell you. And I'm like, oh, your son or your daughter made me laugh so much today. I had such a great day with your child. And you see both parent and child walking away totally happy because, you know, I think their child is just as great as as they do. And the child has heard me talk about how wonderful they are to their parent.
Leeza Browne (00:36:47) - Isn't that beautiful? And we're having those conversations.
Leeza Browne (00:36:50) - So more and more that and encouraging, you know, services and educators call parents for good things to like every time they see that, you know, the service or the center number come up on their phone, it's like that freak out moment of like, oh, no, what's happened? Are they see.
Speaker 4 (00:37:05) - What happened now?
Leeza Browne (00:37:05) - Yeah. So really train them that every now and then like schedule it in your diary for certain children to call for great things. So then that doesn't warrant that response. So yes, totally on board with sharing those moments. So precious and.
Speaker 4 (00:37:21) - Beautiful. Yeah.
Donna Skea (00:37:22) - And it also helps to build a really good relationship with the parent, because the parent believes that you also think your child, their child is wonderful. And so if there is a problem or if something does come up, you're not just nitpicking at the child because you let's say you've said five things that are wonderful about their child, but maybe one day was a rough day. You know, maybe the child's, you know, getting sick or, you know, we all have our bad days.
Donna Skea (00:37:52) - You can say that to the parent and they'll one they'll believe you. Yeah, right. They're not just going to think you're picking on their child. And secondly they'll take you more seriously.
Leeza Browne (00:38:03) - Mhm mhm. It's so true. We've been doing a lot of work at the moment, a big project into nervous system regulation. And as you know as educators we need to be regulated in order to co regulate with the children. But it reminded me but that reminded me of a moment that was shared. So two of our educators are also parents themselves. And they they bring their children into that space. And one of the or both parents, actually, when they get feedback that is, you know, your child didn't have a very good day today, you know, this and this happened, you know, just just that light out of it. But it makes them feel so guilty as parents that like, oh my goodness, my child's too hard work for like, you know, do I want to bring them like, you know, is it okay, are they okay? And it's like that, just that feeling of just that heaviness and guilt that we want to really say wherein we're in partnership with you.
Leeza Browne (00:39:01) - You're not in this alone. We're a team. And I think exactly what you're saying with that messaging, both good and bad. But when we mix them together and we I think all parents want to know is that you understand their child and you know who they are.
Donna Skea (00:39:18) - Absolutely. 100%. And that and that when I walk away that my child is loved and cared for.
Leeza Browne (00:39:27) - Yes, yes. And are you finding because we're finding a lot here and it's coming a lot. We're going back to very much old school and we're revisiting all of these things that we used to do that we just don't do anymore. So some of those things are like our music. There's not enough like actually teachers singing and engaging in music, storytelling and reading. And then the other thing is like being that real partnership with the family, to be able to have these conversations and actually support them in the journey, whatever the challenges are. And those are, I guess, the three top things that we're finding that is just they're just becoming extinct.
Speaker 4 (00:40:09) - Mhm.
Donna Skea (00:40:10) - A lot of people are not singing anymore and that is that breaks my heart because I feel like it, particularly in the infant and toddler room. That's where children learn their language. They are going to learn their language through songs and they're going to learn their, their language through that kind of thing. I was working at a daycare and I was mentoring in the infant room. One of the educators was struggling a little bit, and so she had all of the little children, all the little babies in their high chairs. And of course, lunch is late because, you know, it happens.
Speaker 4 (00:40:45) - It happens and.
Donna Skea (00:40:46) - It happens and everybody's getting frustrated and she's getting frustrated that the babies are getting upset. And I just broke into song because that's what I do as an educator. Just broke into song. Think I think it was if you're happy and you know it. And I started singing it, everybody calmed down. There was there was this whole, you know, co regulation. I was singing, they were engaged.
Donna Skea (00:41:13) - They were, they were going along with it and then and then hear the educator behind me going well that worked.
Speaker 4 (00:41:20) - Wow. Right.
Donna Skea (00:41:22) - And again it's it's like you, you don't know how much the child knows until you start doing things like singing and music and musical instruments. We know that children connect with that very much. Right. Storybooks. Ah, that I don't think is an issue in here in Canada. We know that.
Speaker 4 (00:41:46) - Do you literacy do.
Leeza Browne (00:41:48) - You do a lot of storytelling with the children where the children make up their own stories, and they actually acted out through dramatic like plays.
Speaker 4 (00:41:56) - Do.
Donna Skea (00:41:56) - Like story reenactments and stuff? Oh, that part. No, they don't do that as much. We we teach that in our, in our program. That is a big part of our teaching. But it's interesting that our, our students don't feel like our students don't necessarily feel comfortable doing that. Um, I, I love re-enacting I don't know if you guys know the story. Going on a bear hunt.
Speaker 4 (00:42:22) - Yes.
Leeza Browne (00:42:22) - And wombat stew for us. Do you know wombat stew?
Speaker 4 (00:42:25) - Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Leeza Browne (00:42:27) - So those are the go tos?
Speaker 4 (00:42:29) - Yes, yes.
Donna Skea (00:42:30) - Um, and it's like, how can you not? Let's do a story reenactment with those stories.
Speaker 4 (00:42:38) - How can you.
Leeza Browne (00:42:38) - Not? That's. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 4 (00:42:40) - It just makes sense. Yeah.
Donna Skea (00:42:42) - And so I feel like, um, it's getting lost a little bit in, in that reading the story is fine that they seem to, to enjoy because. Because I find what's happening is that.
Speaker 4 (00:43:00) - Uh.
Donna Skea (00:43:01) - There's more and more teacher directed activities and less of the of the child directed activities. Like, like you said, play based learning. And so reading a story and doing circle time is a teacher directed experience that that educators like to do. And then some of the things that they do during circle time. I get twitchy.
Speaker 4 (00:43:27) - Yes. It makes me.
Donna Skea (00:43:29) - It makes me cringe. I'm like, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:43:32) - Yes, like.
Donna Skea (00:43:34) - Calendar and the weather and all of that and just think, okay, they're three. Like, yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:43:41) - Yeah, look at the research. Look at the there like behind that before you indulge. And I have this saying it's like really simple. It's like if there's no purpose there's no point. And exactly. Yeah. And I always reflect back to that. And I said look what is the purpose. Because then I ask the question rather than judging and coming from that squirmy place, I always ask the question because sometimes in that moment, like, for example, I walked into an infant's room and they had an iPad out with with them, and they were watching the a video on the iPad. And I had a conversation with the lead educator in there afterwards. And I said, look, this morning I just noticed that you had the iPad out. The children were watching the iPad. Like, you know, how often does this occur? What were you doing? What was the purpose? And she said, Lisa, it never happened.
Leeza Browne (00:44:27) - And we literally were just following up on a, on a moment that happened. And that was our extension to build upon that. And it was literally for the couple of minutes that I saw it for. And because there was meaning and purpose behind the intention, it was obviously warranted. And it had a purpose and it had meaning. Whereas if we're just getting that iPad out or just that TV out to sit them in front of it just for entertainment purposes, you've got to think, well, what is our job in that moment? What is our role? Are we are we doing. Yeah. What we, you know, through that play based learning. And what are the children gaining.
Donna Skea (00:45:02) - Yeah I, I have the same sort of philosophy too because I always talk to my students. I talk to educators. Tell me what your why is like, why did you do that. What's your why? You know, because, um, everything that we should be doing with children should be intentional. There's always a purpose behind it.
Donna Skea (00:45:22) - The the language that you use, the materials you put out, the, you know, the activities that you do with them, why you're doing what you're doing. You should be able to explain it to anybody that comes across and says to you, why did you do that? And you should be able to say, I did that because.
Speaker 4 (00:45:43) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:45:43) - And I just did. Last night I actually hosted a critical reflection workshop and oh, wow. Yeah. And so, you know, that was our lot of our discussion is around everything should come from something. You should be able to describe either the story, the journey, the research, the theories behind the reason that how this informed your practice. And that is. Yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 5 (00:46:11) - Mm hmm.
Donna Skea (00:46:16) - Absolutely. No, absolutely. I think there's always an opportunity for children to to learn. And I feel like it's very important for educators to, um, to be always on that sort of observational kind of mode, you know, what are you what are you thinking? What are what are you seeing? What is the the you know, what is the what is the things that are happening before, you know, during one of the consequences to that.
Donna Skea (00:46:47) - What what materials are you seeing? Who's playing with who, who's who's developing friendships, who's struggling to enter into play, all of those kinds of things. The more that we watch and observe our children, the more that we are able to bring that intentionality. And like I said, I saw you yesterday playing with the dinosaurs. Let's do something more with the dinosaurs. If I didn't take notice, I would have just, you know, let that go. So feel like that. That's a that's a big part of it.
Leeza Browne (00:47:21) - And taking the time to actually pause and observe. I think that often we can get in those robotic, monotonous tasks that we do every day. And, you know, we go at the speed of our own pace and we set the pace for the day or for the room. So actually, really, I'm a very advocate right now for slowing down, just really slow.
Speaker 4 (00:47:42) - I love that podcast.
Donna Skea (00:47:44) - By the way.
Speaker 4 (00:47:45) - I thought that was fabulous. That was I'm one.
Leeza Browne (00:47:48) - I'm on a bandwagon about slowing down right now because I just think that is where we're at. We need to really slow down in all facets of our life.
Donna Skea (00:47:57) - Absolutely, absolutely. And I feel like this would be so beneficial to early childhood educators that we yes, every child needs to have a routine in their classroom, but we do not need to be a slave to our watch or our clock or whatever, and not be so rushed in everything that we're doing. No, no, no, let's go. We gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta go. If it takes two more minutes to clean up, it's okay.
Speaker 4 (00:48:25) - Yeah, they're.
Donna Skea (00:48:26) - Doing it themselves if.
Speaker 4 (00:48:28) - They want to.
Leeza Browne (00:48:28) - Continue something as well. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:48:31) - Yeah. Okay.
Donna Skea (00:48:32) - So they're really engaged in play. I know we're supposed to go outside, but you know. Let them. Let them finish up. Yeah. Give them the five more minutes. Give them the ten more minutes that that. Because they're so focused.
Donna Skea (00:48:48) - Because they're so engaged. Give them those moments. You can still follow the routine without following the clock.
Leeza Browne (00:48:56) - Yeah. And have you heard that we actually took the clocks away in our classroom?
Speaker 4 (00:49:01) - Oh love it. Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:49:02) - It's very extreme, very extreme. But we found we said so what we did is a thing. We set alarms on the iPad. So we had an iPad and we set certain alarms. So 11 a.m. was our alarm. We knew that was our, you know, our trigger to start setting up the beds and getting lunch ready. But yeah, we had no clocks. So we knew. And children will tell you when they're hungry. If you know you'll start to notice that that we call that like our flow, the flow of the day, that it doesn't have to be at certain times. It just is the flow. It's one after the other in that consistent method, but really just being responsive to the children.
Donna Skea (00:49:39) - Yes, that's a great idea. I really like that.
Donna Skea (00:49:42) - And you're right, there's there's times in the day that that obviously you have to know and, and and as, as, as we are here in Canada, it's now time to when it's time to go outside, we have to give ourselves at least another 15 or 20 minutes because we are head to toe in snow gear. So, so trying to get eight pair of snow pants on 18 months old is is a bit of a challenge. Um, you'll end up with a, with a at least a little bit of sweat on the, on the forehead by the time you're done getting everybody dressed and out. Um, so there is that timing too, right. That that that what else do we need to do? Getting children ready, giving them the time they need because they're engaged in play when they're hungry. You know, all of those things is is again, making it much more child based and less about the academics, less about the teacher.
Speaker 4 (00:50:50) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:50:50) - And who are we doing it for? I think that's a really powerful question.
Leeza Browne (00:50:53) - Like, again, you're sitting children in front of a TV. Is that for the children or for the educators. Like that is an educated decision. Whereas like, you know, spending an extra ten minutes to get the children ready in their home, in their snow gear in, in Scotland, these suits and boots, that's all I heard. Their suits and boots. Yeah, yeah. To be able to get them ready to go outside. But that is us thinking in advance with how to create more time in that space so that it isn't rushed and that we can take our time, because even the conversations that would happen during that time would be amazing. Like about the weather. Why do we need to wear this? Like, you know, I can just imagine.
Speaker 4 (00:51:31) - Oh yeah. And the other.
Donna Skea (00:51:32) - Thing is to again, going back to autonomy, getting children to be able to, you know, children can get their snow pants on. I have a little trick, even for 18 months old, you know, let me see your toes.
Donna Skea (00:51:43) - And they get a little tickle when their toes pop out. And then as soon as they can stand up, they flip it over, and then we can flip over the coats, and we got the hats and the neck warmers in the mitts and boots are the last thing that go on and out we go. And everybody has a pattern and they all can start doing it. And, you know, all starting to work on their autonomy and being able to do that. And, you know, children who are able to zip up their own code are very proud of themselves.
Speaker 4 (00:52:11) - Yes.
Leeza Browne (00:52:12) - And those moments, I mean, like over in Australia, we have educators whingeing about putting children's shoes on to go outside. So let alone putting putting on all of this snow gear. And how does the weather like how does the weather impact would you go outside, you know, rain or shine. Snow blizzard. Like where does the where does the barriers lie?
Donna Skea (00:52:33) - Okay.
Speaker 4 (00:52:33) - So um.
Donna Skea (00:52:35) - Again, think the barriers lie in the educators? Um, to be perfectly honest, sometimes a lot of our educators because some some days it is quite the ordeal to get all all the children dressed up and to get them outside.
Donna Skea (00:52:52) - It is it is about a 15 to 20 minute extra every day. We think our base is minus ten. So children can go out at minus up until minus ten -12. Snow is fantastic because we have snow, hills and sliding and snowmen and and snow angels and and snow, snow, snow snow snow. We love to use snow for science, you know, melting, measuring, bringing out one of those old fashioned yardsticks and seeing how much snow it snowed the night before. Because sometimes we can get a lot of snow. Like we're talking like 40cm of snow.
Speaker 4 (00:53:40) - Um, and.
Donna Skea (00:53:40) - So we get the children plunging through that. They love the sleds. Um, you know, once they get outside. Canadian children are just adapted to to be able to do that. And, um, we don't feel that there is, um, you know, when it gets extremely cold, that's obviously there's a health concern there, but we can take them out in the rain. We can take them out in the snow.
Donna Skea (00:54:10) - The snow is the fun part.
Speaker 4 (00:54:12) - Yes.
Leeza Browne (00:54:13) - Look at all of the amazing. Nature is just such a beautiful resource, isn't it? And the changes in the seasons. And you would have extreme changes.
Speaker 4 (00:54:21) - Beautiful. Yeah, we have beautiful changes.
Donna Skea (00:54:24) - We just finished up our fall and the colors were amazing. And I was supervising at a daycare and I watched a, um, educator have, you know, the Billy boots and the and the splash pads. And off they went into the forest with a rake, and she was going to rake up all the leaves, and I could hear the squeals of delight as the children were jumping into the piles of leaves and just enjoying that, that experience and, you know, coming back and then got, you know, leaves stuck in their hats and their hair and all of that, and just coming back after they've gotten that experience and, and, you know, you know, as a Canadian educator, we're really about, you know, forest schools and getting outside and being in the nature and and and trying to get them outside as much as possible.
Donna Skea (00:55:15) - I mean, not every educator is as joyous about being outside, but in the rain.
Speaker 4 (00:55:20) - Yeah, in the rain and.
Donna Skea (00:55:22) - The snow in the cold or whatever. But I think most of our educators do try to utilize, like the different seasons. A lot of daycares have gardens. So we'll, you know, they'll do some planting. They'll, you know, spring is a big deal here too, right? We're finally out. Less less snow pants and more rain pants and and gardening and planting and seasonal stuff. And so there's so much, um, science and social studies and community and all of that stuff that we could utilize just based on the seasons.
Speaker 4 (00:55:59) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (00:55:59) - Oh, absolutely. And that calendar. Calendar of the seasons. It's so beautiful. And I think that's a real motto that I try to stand by is there's no bad weather, it's just bad clothing. Although your -40 I would say is bad weather. I don't know if I.
Speaker 4 (00:56:14) - We still go out. You still go out.
Speaker 4 (00:56:16) - Yeah. Yeah.
Donna Skea (00:56:17) - And the cars start and you know we sit in we do start our cars a little bit early before we get in there, let the let it warm up. And because.
Speaker 4 (00:56:28) - You need to put.
Leeza Browne (00:56:29) - Special stuff in your cars so that it doesn't freeze right.
Speaker 4 (00:56:32) - No. We're good. Oh, you know, they've.
Donna Skea (00:56:35) - They've adapted the cars. We used to have to plug them in so that the battery didn't freeze. But but now the batteries are.
Speaker 4 (00:56:45) - Are okay for our weather. That's good.
Leeza Browne (00:56:48) - Thank goodness. Because imagine. Yeah. Imagine I mean we like sometimes we'll get like a little tiny bit of ice on our windscreens or something if it's extremely cold. But no, nothing that's not the hose can fix that. Just put the hose on it.
Speaker 4 (00:57:03) - Yeah, yeah.
Donna Skea (00:57:03) - No, no, we're we're taking, like, massive shovels to dig out our cars sometimes.
Speaker 4 (00:57:10) - Wow.
Leeza Browne (00:57:11) - Oh how amazing. I'd love to have the opportunity to be able to teach in an environment like that, just to see how it how it differed.
Leeza Browne (00:57:21) - And I remember in Iceland, like, again, they just suits and boots and they just went out all weather in it was frozen and they were at the lakes in the like. It wasn't they weren't frozen over, but they were like it was icy cold. And they're just in there playing with the rocks and the water. And it was just obviously their environment and it's just what they were used to.
Donna Skea (00:57:42) - Yeah. Think. Think. One is just what you're used to. And so so it's just part of it. And I think that, um, children are a lot more resilient about this stuff than we are. We're a little bit more cranky about the weather and about the cold. And, you know, we're we're not the ones that are, like, running and jumping and rolling down the snow hills and all of that kind of stuff. They're they're loving it.
Leeza Browne (00:58:09) - But why is that? Like, I want to because for me, I think it's like, obviously our fears, our beliefs that we've held inside.
Leeza Browne (00:58:16) - But I also think it's as you get older, your inner child gets suppressed. But if we just bring out that inner child, let go of all of our it's messy or it's cold or, you know, I don't want to get wet, I don't have a change of clothes. It's like our logic brain starts to take over. But. And it's a bad example, right? But if we're out, like having a drinking alcohol, that inhibition goes like we have no inhibitions. And that logic brain goes out the window. So it's almost like we just need to take that energy into our space to be able to just like, let go of those inhibitions. And just as you said, like much earlier in the episode, get that silliness and that joy back into our day.
Donna Skea (00:58:56) - Absolutely. And think. Think. That's one of the things that you see with educators that are still so passionate about their field is that they will bring out that joy. They will go on the they will get on the back of the slot of the toboggan and the and the crazy carpet, and they'll go down the hills with the children and they'll, they'll engage with them and, and they'll just, you know, it'll be just fun.
Donna Skea (00:59:21) - It'll just be a fun experience. I was very fortunate. Just before Covid, I went to a forest school here in in Quebec, where it was January. It was winter, like deep, deep snow. And they spent most of the day outside. Children got to decide what they wanted to do. We I spent the day tobogganing with children. Um, you know, some got to the point where I'm like, no, I'm not pulling you up the hill again.
Speaker 4 (00:59:52) - Yes, yes.
Donna Skea (00:59:54) - But, but but just just that that the they move better. There's this mobility about them. Um, they spot things. They, they found animal tracks, which is very common right in for school areas, you know, think it was either it was a rabbit or it was, um, you know, something like a small, small creature or whatever. And we all looked around to see, you know, what, what other evidence was there and sort of talking about that and, and like, reading stories about it and having all of that, that, that stuff.
Donna Skea (01:00:32) - So really kind of bringing in the whole nature and how important it is to coexist with the, um, with, with everything else. Again, going back to the idea, for me, the ultimate goal is be becoming a good citizen of the world. And I do believe that part of that is also thinking about compassionately with animals and taking care of the environment and taking care of your space and all of the stuff that goes along with it, and getting children fired up about about being outside and being in nature and, and loving that and giving them those opportunities to, I don't know, climb trees and, you know, throw rocks and dig in the mud with a stick and, you know, and all of those kinds of things that that I used to do as a kid. And my parents never even. Not an eyelash. Right. And now we're saying, oh, put down the stick and don't throw the rock. You're gonna get somebody in the eye. I've never in 30 years come across an incident report where somebody got a stick in the ice.
Speaker 4 (01:01:39) - So I'm still waiting.
Donna Skea (01:01:41) - For that to happen. But just allowing children to have that childhood where they are connecting to, to more things than just what we're giving them or what they're seeing on the screen.
Speaker 4 (01:01:53) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (01:01:54) - And I think, you know, going into that is with play based learning open versus closed ended. And we talk a lot about, um, what is it called, a transient art. So getting the children to come up with different materials and creating their own transient artwork with different things they see, and transient obviously means that it is movable. So we can obviously remove it, put it back into nature. And usually nature items are what? And you see the creations. Children do it naturally. They don't need us to know that it's called transient art. They just collect things.
Speaker 4 (01:02:24) - We just need a fancy word.
Donna Skea (01:02:26) - But they've been doing it forever.
Speaker 4 (01:02:28) - Yeah, it's so true.
Leeza Browne (01:02:29) - It's so true. And the patterns and the shapes and. And what they can transform.
Speaker 4 (01:02:34) - Yes.
Leeza Browne (01:02:34) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (01:02:35) - And I think that that's something.
Speaker 4 (01:02:36) - Pine cones. We do lots of things.
Donna Skea (01:02:38) - With pine.
Speaker 4 (01:02:39) - Cones.
Donna Skea (01:02:40) - And different colored leaves. And children will put that into like the outdoor kitchen areas and they'll make things. And there's going to be lots of stuff like that. Or they'll.
Speaker 4 (01:02:52) - Just walk around with two.
Donna Skea (01:02:53) - Pine cones.
Leeza Browne (01:02:54) - Yeah, yeah. Actually I saw this picture the other day. It was a someone had made a full Christmas tree out of pine cones. I'll send you the photo. You can collect all your pine cones and and make your pine cone Christmas tree. It was really cool. But I love how people are looking for things that are more sustainable in nature base that obviously have fallen from nature to collect and be able to repurpose and make different things out of them.
Donna Skea (01:03:20) - Absolutely, absolutely. There's there's so many things that we can we can learn. We can continue to grow as as a profession, as a field, thinking about environmental factors, how we can reduce the waste, how we can teach children about environmental factors, and, you know, all of those great things.
Donna Skea (01:03:44) - So it's really good. I like that idea. The pine cones are always a big fan favorite with the children.
Speaker 4 (01:03:51) - Yes.
Leeza Browne (01:03:52) - And when you've got access to them, like there's so many resource shops in Australia that sell them for lots of like money and it's crazy. It's like really? Yeah. And conkers. I don't know if you have the conkers here. It was something I discovered over in Scotland. Yeah. I was like, we don't have any of that. Like we have obviously pine cones, but they're much more rare to find. So whenever we do I get my mum usually to collect like big bags of them and bring them back. But yeah, they're becoming rare and rarer. So resource stores like shells, pine cones, rocks like this, they sell them.
Speaker 4 (01:04:27) - Yeah.
Leeza Browne (01:04:28) - So but yeah, go out in nature and source them. I think that's always better. Yeah.
Donna Skea (01:04:31) - Absolutely. Absolutely. Children love rocks.
Leeza Browne (01:04:34) - They do. They really do. They really do. And so many different things.
Leeza Browne (01:04:38) - It can be an apple one day. It can be money the next day. Yeah. It's so open ended.
Donna Skea (01:04:45) - Beautiful, allowing them that opportunity to be able to do all of those things, giving them the space and the time to be able to use their creativity and use their imagination to.
Speaker 4 (01:04:56) - To.
Donna Skea (01:04:57) - To play with something that is just so common and so ordinary, but turns into something so much more.
Leeza Browne (01:05:06) - Yeah. And children's imaginations have decreased by 90% over the last ten years, so we have an obligation.
Donna Skea (01:05:13) - When you say that.
Leeza Browne (01:05:14) - I know, I know, we have an obligation to to bring it back and creative, creative, innovative problem solvers for the future. And if we don't continue to bring those open ended materials or children have access to them, then yeah, I mean, I can't even imagine what the future will look like.
Speaker 4 (01:05:33) - Pretty scary.
Leeza Browne (01:05:34) - Yeah. Um. Which is. Oh, we could talk about that all day long, I'm sure, but. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Leeza Browne (01:05:41) - So where can people track you? Oh, sorry. Before that. Is there anything else that you want to leave for our listeners? Any last minute words or sayings or quotes or mantras that are common in your practice?
Speaker 4 (01:05:53) - Oh.
Donna Skea (01:05:55) - Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:05:55) - Put you on the spot.
Donna Skea (01:05:57) - Put me on the spot. I really am an advocate for understanding. So think the last thing I would go back to, um, to say again is always to remember your. Why. Why are you why are you in this field? Why are you doing what you're doing with the children? Why are you setting up your classroom? I do believe, and again, like you had said these, that the there's purpose in everything that you're doing. And the long term goal is to create a good citizen of the world. And how are we doing that? How are we doing that? What's our part in that or that our role in that, to create these wonderful adults that are going to take over the world and make it way better than we're making it right now.
Leeza Browne (01:06:46) - So, yeah, and that's our legacy. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:06:50) - Love that.
Donna Skea (01:06:51) - That's exactly what it is.
Leeza Browne (01:06:53) - Leaving that legacy. Yeah, definitely. Um, and where can people find you, Donna, if they want to track you down for a chat or to come and see you over there in Canada.
Donna Skea (01:07:03) - Well, yes, absolutely I have. I'm on LinkedIn under Donna Sky. I'm also have a Facebook page or an Instagram account for the Infinite Educator. I started my own company three years ago called The Infinite Educator, where I do mentoring workshops. You know, keynote speakers. I've kind of done it all in the last three years, and it's been very exciting. I've I've loved it. I'm so very passionate about, um, talking about early childhood, as you can tell, we're already over our time. But yeah, so The Infinite Educator is on Instagram. It's also on Facebook. And you can find me on LinkedIn on Adonis. You can send me messages through all of those. Um, I would love to be able to work with more people.
Donna Skea (01:07:58) - I have done a workshop actually, for a daycare in Australia. Amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:08:04) - Called The Grove.
Donna Skea (01:08:05) - Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:08:05) - Oh, great. For me.
Donna Skea (01:08:07) - Yeah, yeah. I got up at four in the morning and they had their 6:00 in the evening meeting, and I was, I was doing it at four in the morning on zoom. I've done, I've done workshops for, um, a small group in Africa. I've been doing a lot of mentoring with educators who are struggling in the classroom. I've done wonderful workshops with educators for challenging behaviors, because that is a new, new field that a lot of our educators are struggling with. Well, maybe it's not so new, but it's it's become more of a struggle where they're not really sure what to do with some of the children that they have in their care. But yeah, so that's those are all the places. But again, Lisa, this has been a wonderful experience for me. Um, to sort of geek out with somebody else who was totally passionate about early childhood and, and being able to just have this wonderful conversation about anything and everything, like, we could probably go for another hour.
Leeza Browne (01:09:13) - No, I know we really could. It's so true. It's so true. I'm sure we could talk all day. And, you know, we should. We should meet up one of these days, whether it's over here in Australia or in Canada.
Speaker 4 (01:09:22) - Scotland?
Leeza Browne (01:09:24) - Well, I'm not sure. I think we're planning a trip maybe for June next year, so I'll get in touch. Okay. Yeah, I'll get in touch.
Speaker 4 (01:09:30) - Was I was there in June this year? Oh, no.
Donna Skea (01:09:34) - Yeah. And I went to the I went to the University of Inverness where they have an.
Speaker 4 (01:09:40) - Easter.
Donna Skea (01:09:42) - Program there as well, and had wonderful conversations with the with the teachers there in Inverness about all of the, you know, and we did this, it was over a cup of tea and it was fabulous. And they have the same issues that we have in Canada and they have the same solutions. And it's just it's just so wonderful to be able to reach out to a variety of people in the world and have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (01:10:11) - All the time.
Leeza Browne (01:10:12) - Oh, and it's so true. And I think that's something that I learned last year. Like obviously being like, what do we do? New Zealand, Scotland, Italy, UK and Iceland. And it was just really interesting to hear how diverse the issues are. They're not just national within Australia, they're global and everyone's having the same things. And I think, oh my gosh, the power in the people. If we all got together and just advocated for the same things, I was like, oh, we we need to create like a global a global summit or a global global group.
Speaker 4 (01:10:47) - I'm thinking the same thing. We need an international.
Donna Skea (01:10:49) - Early childhood summit.
Leeza Browne (01:10:51) - Yes, or something just to come together. But because like for us, like we're not for us. We're really practical and easy, practical, simple solutions. And I find what's happening, and I don't know if you find this a lot with others in the space is that they're quite very theoretical. And whilst, you know, all of our decisions are based on research and theories and perspectives, they also have to be practical because we have to be able to take them and put them into action.
Speaker 4 (01:11:19) - Absolutely.
Donna Skea (01:11:20) - They have to be tangible strategies that we can move into the classroom immediately. So my when I give workshops, that's exactly my mindset as well, that we yes, I take it from the research and always go from the idea of best practice. I believe in best practice. I always go from that point of view. But it's great to say, here's the theory, go implement it. But there's no practical part to it. Whereas as as I believe, especially in a lot of my workshops, I hear take this, try this, do this, like, how about we try this strategy, this strategy, this strategy. And if none of those work, let's let's try again. Let's keep working on it until we figure it out. And how do we work on building the positive? I always believe that we always need to come from the strength of the children and not from we're a deficit. So where are they at right now and how can we meet them there?
Leeza Browne (01:12:21) - Yeah. Oh, totally feel you I feel it.
Leeza Browne (01:12:24) - Connect. Yes. Love that, love that so much. And thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:12:28) - Yeah.
Donna Skea (01:12:28) - We think you and I have a new project. Think we need to have the International early Childhood Summit.
Leeza Browne (01:12:34) - There you go. Let's do it.
Speaker 4 (01:12:35) - Let's do it I love it. I'm coming to.
Donna Skea (01:12:37) - Australia.
Speaker 4 (01:12:38) - You want to come to Australia? But I'm like, I want to come to.
Leeza Browne (01:12:41) - Canada and experience the snow in the eyes. No.
Speaker 4 (01:12:43) - You want to come to Canada?
Leeza Browne (01:12:45) - We'll have the. We'll have to.
Speaker 4 (01:12:46) - Trade. When was in school?
Donna Skea (01:12:49) - We'll have to trade. We'll swap.
Speaker 4 (01:12:51) - Houses. No, I want you to be there too.
Leeza Browne (01:12:55) - So we'll have to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:12:56) - Different times. Yeah, but it absolutely.
Donna Skea (01:12:59) - And it's funny, like the same thing when I was in Scotland, also invited them to come to Canada and to, to come and check us out because I'm pretty proud of our programs too. We, we work very hard at the college level to, to make sure that because ours is a three year college program that they have to go through to be able to get qualified, to be an early childhood educator, and it's quite extensive and pretty intensive.
Donna Skea (01:13:29) - So haven't come here and see what our facilities and everything look like, as well as going into some of our centres, some of our centres just they just blow my mind sometimes. There's some educators out there that I, when I'm supervising, I'm supposed to be watching my student and I'm sitting there in awe of the educator going.
Speaker 4 (01:13:50) - Yeah, can't.
Donna Skea (01:13:51) - Believe you are so.
Leeza Browne (01:13:52) - Good. Yes. And I and I had so many moments of that when even when I was leading now where I just look at educators and like, yes, you're like the epitome of what we should be like. That is it. You are it. You just have this, like, joy. And it was funny. I had a moment like that a few months ago. I saw this educator and she was actually teaching the children all of these old school dance moves and, you know. Yeah, like the sprinkler, the helicopter, the pushing, the trolley, like. And it was so fun. And it didn't matter what this educator did.
Leeza Browne (01:14:26) - She would always have a group of, you know, 20 children around her because she was so fun. And that's it. Like, bring back the fun, bring back the joy. All the children will be attracted over. Um, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:14:38) - And you know.
Donna Skea (01:14:39) - What that tells me? That tells me that early childhood educator loves her job. She loves being around children. She finds joy. She finds passion. She finds happiness. She finds everything that she needs in those group of children. And I think if we could bottle that and.
Speaker 4 (01:15:00) - Yes, I.
Donna Skea (01:15:01) - Think think that we would, we would be bazillion heirs, because I feel like the the people who are passionate about this. Field are a next level. There's a completely different type of human being who everybody who talks to me when I give a workshop, they're like, if nothing else, you are. You love your your your field. You you are super passionate. You are super into this. I, I, I jokingly say I spend my weekends reading books about early childhood.
Donna Skea (01:15:36) - Like I'm constantly learning, I'm constantly engaging. I'm constantly, oh, I love this. I go down, as we say, go down the rabbit hole of a new topic, and just the next thing I know, I'm like, I'm just going bananas over it. And it's just because I know what that joy feels like. And it's almost, you know, it's it's for the children, 100%. But I get a little I get a benefit out of it, too.
Leeza Browne (01:16:01) - Oh, yeah. It fills our cup. We don't do anything if there's no like if there's nothing in it for us.
Speaker 4 (01:16:06) - Yeah, absolutely.
Leeza Browne (01:16:07) - So feel feels the cup. Yes. All the way to the.
Speaker 4 (01:16:10) - Oh yes. Yeah.
Donna Skea (01:16:11) - Oh absolutely. Absolutely. When you get to work with little ones and and then just something clicks and everything is going well and you're having a good day. It's like you leave there and you've got this massive grin on your face and you're just like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:16:27) - Yeah, yeah.
Leeza Browne (01:16:28) - And those moments, it is. It's those moments that you look back and you're like, yes, this is why I do what I do. This is it. This is that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just and and collect those elements.
Speaker 4 (01:16:39) - Yes. That's all I know and. Yeah. And like this diamond moment for me.
Donna Skea (01:16:44) - Was like that was like okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the best moment I ever had. Where. And it's hard to describe in words words that how I felt on that day. But it was just like, you know what I remember saying to myself, you know what, Donna? You're doing something good here. Yeah. Like, I just remember that moment and just kind of thinking about it going, you know, this just feels good. Like, it just it just felt good. So to have those moments where you're like, okay, you're just this is good. This is all good.
Leeza Browne (01:17:18) - Yeah, this is good. We're doing something good here.
Leeza Browne (01:17:20) - I love that. And that's exactly what we both want to encourage all of those amazing, call them super humans out there to keep doing an amazing job. Well, thank you so, so much for joining us today on Everything Early Childhood Podcast. We've really appreciated your time and I hope you found everyone out there listening has found today's conversation as enlightening and inspiring as I did. A big thank you to Donna for sharing your expertise and passion for early childhood education. And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate and leave a review and share it with all of your amazing friends. And remember that the early years are the foundation of a lifetime of learning, so we're here to explore it all with you. And until next time, keep embracing curiosity, fostering imagination, nurturing those little sparks and make every moment count. So thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you on our next episode. Thanks for listening to the Everything Early Childhood podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review.
Leeza Browne (01:18:27) - We read them all to catch all the latest from me, your host Leeza Browne. You can follow me on Facebook and Instagram at Leeza Browne Underscore platinum. Ed, thanks again for listening. Keep making every moment count and I'll see you next time.
